The problem with the nature of �interviews� is their formality�they define the individuals involved as an interviewer and a subject.  The subject then gives guarded answers.  But those are the only forms of conversations you can have with some politicians�politicians who are not conversationalist, and those who have nothing interesting to say. Herui is�.different.  We have interviewed Herui before�we have had a discussion with him.  But that was before he was elected Secretary General of the Alliance.  I took advantage of his current trip to North America and sat with him for long hours. What I have is a hybrid of an �interview��on tape�and a conversation (on notes) and what follows is a mixture of both� - Saleh Gadi, November 17& 18, 2003.

1- Herui, welcome to the Bay Area. Why are you here?  Are you a terrorist?  Are you leading a terrorist organization? 

Thanks for your hospitality [laughs.] Of course not. I struggle against a regime that is terrorizing the whole Eritrean population. Ironically, the regime is the one insulting its opposition by branding them terrorists to deflect attention from its terrorizing methods. We have to understand that the regime, after 9-11, used the anxiety of the world, and that of the USA specifically, the anxiety that was created by the brutal terrorist act, to damage and crush its opposition. I am an Eritrean struggling for victory of my country over a dictatorship. I belong to the Eritrean National opposition camp. 

2- Were you pushed to your current position by foreign powers?  Are they steering the opposition wheel?

[Laughs.]I am not. I am aware of the allegations and it would be better if you asked the party that made that allegation.

3- But when you are accused, you, or the ENA, should challenge the accusation, don�t you think?

We did. In fact it was Seyoum [Ogbamichael] who aired this allegation and he should answer to that. I am the victim and, so far, he has been challenged by different parties and individuals and he can't produce a shred of evidence.

4- The ENA announced that it has welcomed the ELF-RC to the ENA. We all know there are two factions of the RC; how do you make a distinction between the two?

First, let me say that the RC was first split horizontally when the grassroots defied the leadership and challenged its decisions. Then there was a vertical split when the leadership split into two; one part submitted to the wishes of the grassroots and the other didn't. We don't believe in exclusion and, even now, the other faction of the ELF-RC is welcome to join the ENA. Staying out of the ENA is that faction's decision.

5- Herui, are you a sub-nationalist?

What is a sub-nationalist?  Answer me that question, and I will answer your question�

6- Well, you are the one who majored in political science, and you are the one who has been on the giving and receiving end of that label in your long political career, so you tell me�.

Let's look at this closely.  If nationalism is the "whole" and "sub nationalism" is the part, and if we agree that you can't have a whole without the part, then it is impossible to be a nationalist without being a sub-nationalist.   Sub-nationalism is a precondition to nationalism. Even the most patriotic person in the world will have a special affinity for the land of his forefathers, his "special place."  This is natural.  You see, it is only those who don't have a "special place," the "Hadish Adi" people, who want to deny this natural feeling. The dictator tries to make it appear as if the "sub-nationalist" are not nationalists. Whereas the first condition for Eritrean nationalism is to recognize that we are "sub-nationalists," if such a thing exists

7-  Are Eritreans regionalists and sectarians by nature?

If being loyal to your people and your village is considered sectarianism, then all humanity is. After all, public representatives are elected from their locality to represent the best interest of their constituency. Democracy is all about satisfying the needs of a constituency to the extent that the law permits.

8- Doesn't this kind of argument eventually lead to "nativism", the theory that some Eritreans are more Eritrean than others?  

True. Though they are wrong, such feelings are likely to develop but the presence of laws and courts would prevent destructive superiority complexes from developing. In a constitutional state, rights and obligations are decided by the constitution and that is why we, the ENA, believe that all Eritreans should be able to develop a common charter that would lead to a common law that we will all abide by. Nativism is destructive and should not be promoted. All Eritreans are the same and have equal rights and they are all equal under the law.

9- Allegedly, you gave a speech in Port Sudan and, subsequently, you were accused of being more Islamist than the Islamists.  What is your reply to that?

I don't abide by the usual chauvinistic rhetoric and what I say might have shocked those who are not used to honest and open speeches. I speak of Moslem issues and Christian issues equally and that might have botherd some people. 

10- According to the Ethiopian press, you were disappointed by the strings the Ethiopians, or specifically, PM Meles, put on the bag of the funds allocated to the ENA by the neighboring states (Ethiopia, Sudan and Yemen). Would you explain that?

There is a contradiction here. First, they claimed that we were bought by Ethiopia, which meant that Ethiopia paid us. Then there was contradictory claim that we had problems with Ethiopia because they do not fund us; don't you see the untenable accusation as contradictory? I saw the news first in an Ethiopian newspaper, and I do not know where they got that kind of information. Then others picked the news without verification and preyed on the opportunity to defame the ENA and me. We are not hired contractors for the neighboring countries; we are strategic allies with the people of the region because we represent a big chunk of the Eritrean people.   Our relations with the neighboring countries are based on respect and mutual interest.

11- Also in the news was that you made statements regarding violent means to overthrow the regime in Asmara and blowing vital infrastructures to bring down the government; and there was opposition to that from within Eritreans in the Diaspora.  Would you care to elaborate on that?

I can't explain this more than the ENA charter does. Yes, we have not ruled out any means of struggle to remove the dictatorship. That doesn't mean we are fond of violence. In fact, we are away from our own country because the regime is violent and allows neither political opposition nor simple student dissent.

12- There is a call for peaceful struggle to democratize Eritrea, what are your views on that?

What the ENA is waging is a peaceful struggle. Do you see the ENA waging battles everyday, though it is able to do that if it wanted? Of course, the right to self-defense is an unalienable human right and any opposition has that right.

13-Reforming the PFDJ or overthrowing it- where do you stand? Does the ENA have and objection if the PFD] would be reformed?

The majority of the opposition has been around for a long time; they have given up on the regime a long time ago. The regime is proving time and again that dictatorship is not reformed; it is removed. We don't have any qualms about that. The only reformation for the regime is to abdicate power to the people.

14- Christians and Moslems alike fear the manifestation of a religious and ethnic based struggle. Would you prove the fear to  be unfounded? If not, isn't the fear justified? If you believe the fear is unfounded, what assurances can you give the people?

It is not founded. The Islamists and ethnic organizations are nationalists and their views are Eritrean views and we have to deal with it. No one is in a position to tell equals what to do and what not to do. The alarmists would better serve Eritrean problems if they took the trouble to understand the grievances of their fellow citizens and attended to the grievances of the organizations and tried to know them. It is their Eritrean and democratic right to exist. However, I believe the whole fear is caused by misconception and ignorance.

15- Maybe the Islamists and the ethnic groups themselves haven't explained or articulated their causes properly.  Don't you think it is up to them to explain their grievances and views instead of waiting for people to come and study their grievances?

Maybe you are right.. But how do you know that people do not know the grievances of these people? If you are measuring that based on the relatively far and few Eritreans in the West, you are right. The picture is different inside Eritrea and in the neighboring countries where hundreds of thousands of Eritrean live.

16- Herui, I want this answered in a manner a layman would understand.  Please, no second regular, 6th irregular, and all the other numbers that nobody is actually following.  What has the ENA achieved since you were elected and at what stages have you reached? An evaluation, if you will?

The ENA's decisions are made by consensus and that requires time; it is not as fast as people would like decisions to be made. However, we have made major strides in reorganizing our structure, it is an on going exercise and the plans will be implemented in full very soon. We have reorganized our information department and that is improving. We have also started reorganizing our membership around the world and we are launching a diplomatic campaign soon.

17- Border ruling. The ENA is accused of being soft on Ethiopia over its rejection of the border ruling, how do you defend your position, the position of the ENA?

I don't know who is making that accusation. If, let's say, the accusation is being made by Isaias�

18- No. No, that is to be expected.  I mean, beyond Isaias; we read and hear accusations and insinuation by some including opposition websites that insinuate that the ENA is soft on the sovereignty of Eritrea�

Well, again this is self-serving, you see. The people who initiated this war and their supporters are not in a position to accuse anybody of being hard and soft on the border issue. If anybody should be accused of being soft on the border issue, it is  those people who did not make it possible for Eritreans living on the border between Eritrea and Ethiopia to participate in the referendum. In other words, if along the border, all Eritreans had participated in the referendum, the issue of soft and hard would not have arisen and probably the war would not have taken place.  I reject the dictator's argument that willingness to enter into reckless wars is a merit of patriotism. Was a referendum carried out in Badme? 

19- You tell me?

What? Check�

20- No you tell me?

Well I don't like to be specific because I am representing a huge organization� but, on the other hand, I recommend that the people who accuse the ENA of being soft and hard, should go and check whether there has been, whether a referendum was conducted in Badme.

21- Let's go back to the causes of the conflict and all these arguments and counter arguments of whether a referendum has taken�

These are not arguments, check the facts�

22- Ok. I will do that�but in the meantime what I am saying is that after arguments and counter arguments were presented, the case was sealed with a ruling and it has reached a level of implementation when the Ethiopian government refused or rejected the ruling� Now, what do you say to that as an organization, that is my question?

The ruling should take the entire border of Eritrea and not concentrate, for example, over a certain area like Badme that is what I am trying to say. Isaias and his dictatorial regime was always told not to enter into conflict with his neighbors, that is one. Once having entered into conflict, for example like Yemen, they were advised not to go to international bodies but rather sit face-to-face, eyeball-to-eyeball and resolve the specific problem. Why? Because international courts have no implementation process. In other words, once there is a ruling at the international level, that court does not have the police force and other means to demand implementation.

23- We have guarantors in that case?

Guarantors and so on, but you see, implementation is a simple concept. In other words, a decision is made and then there are authorities, which implement it. We have to be clear about this with each other. So, why did they go to the international court when they know the international court does not have the resources to implement decision. It was recommended to him time and time again, read past articles, including mine, it said "do not negotiate in the basis of sending your case to the international court.  Do not agree to arbitrate. But discuss, sit with face to face with the people you have entered into conflict."  He didn't do that. He simply didn't.

What we say today is a very simple statement: as an opposition force representing a very large part of the Eritrean people, we say that our duty is to bring about peace by removing the dictator from power so that a democratic government in Asmara, or an Eritrean anywhere, would be able to discuss all issues including border issues. And all outstanding problems regarding our neighbors, not only Ethiopia but all our neighbors. So, by raising the border issue, they wish to make the opposition forces into supporters of the dictatorial system.

24- In that all there is to the border issue?

Absolutely, the whole maneuvering in accusing the ENA of being soft, so that the ENA says "we are nationalist and we support Isaias"--it is a very childish game, if you ask me. So that is why I go back to the real issue: you cannot go to an international court, which does not have the police forces to implement its decision. Since you have started all these conflicts, sit face to face with your neighbors and resolve that; and since you cannot resolve problems, then our duty is to represent the Eritrean people and remove you. 

25- The populist view in the Diaspora is that, and I quote, "as Eritreans we should bond together against our common enemy, in theses case the Ethiopians".  Meaning, 'ana we akhui ala ibn Ami, ana we ibn Ami Ala 'lQerib.' [My brother and I against my cousin; my cousin and I against other relatives.]Therefore, we should all rally behind the Eritrean government and demand implementation of the border ruling�

The problem is that experience has shown us that to support the dictator is to send your children to war. That is the problem. And we don't have factories that produce thousands of Eritrean youth. So we cannot use that homily, which you just quoted in Arabic, to address the issue that we are discussing.

26- Tell me in brief, what is the stand of the ENA?

The ENA charter shows clearly that it stands for international legality.

27- Including the ruling?

For international legality, I do not wish to go into specifics. But one of the dimensions of the Eritrean charter is that the Eritrean alliance respects all international obligations and fights for international legality.

28- Any news you can give us regarding the initiatives for a meeting by some Scandinavian personalities who are pushing for a dialogue?

There are many interested parties who wish to see our problems solved and I cannot go into specifics at this moment. Apart from that, nothing is clear so far and I don't want to say more on that.

29- What if mediators initiated a dialogue between the opposition and the PFDJ, what would be your reaction, your stand- would you refuse dialogue?

We are not against dialogue, but even if we arrive at a dialogue, it will be to tell the regime that it has to go.

30- Is the ENA contemplating a shortcut deal with the PFDJ?

Any political force that contemplates a shortcut will not succeed and on the contrary, it will be the cause for more sufferings and complications of the already complicated situation the dictatorship has created. Shortcuts, exclusions and arrogance don't pay. We have to face the dictatorship in a coordinated manner and not to contemplate to become replacements.

31- What if a certain opposition group found a shortcut to power and initiated a dialogue with the PFDJ, what would the reaction of the ENA be?

The ENA represents and struggles to realize the aspiration of the Eritrean people and as I have mentioned, it represents a big segment of our population. We will struggle until we reach our goal, regardless. But I don't think there is anyone who would contemplate a short cut by excluding other political forces. Such short routes have proven to be destructive throughout our history.

32- We hear that there was a problem between MDC and the Ethiopian government, would you care to explain that? 

I don't know anything about that.

33- How do you get connected with the Eritrean people back home apart from the radio station, which is a one-way communication? Do you have agents, communication with the army, and other functionaries of the government? How do you get feedback? Do you have a reliable infrastructure?

We have our own channels of communications as far as intelligence and organizing is concerned. We also communicate through the ENA member organization radio stations based to Eritrea. 

34- There is information coming from Eritrea that claims villages in Barka Laal were all ordered to settle around Duluk thus leave their land and homes behind, how true is this news and if it is, what do you say to that?

I don't have any news regarding that. I cannot confirm or deny it.

35- How do you define peaceful relations?

In this context, peaceful relations means: as a first step, to sign a non-belligerence treaty among the neighbors; and there should be a collective defense, among the neighbors; and defining areas of cooperation. But this region should not be known to humanity as an area which starves once a year where millions are threatened by death from starvation. But the regions should coordinate their activities so that they can develop and feed their people.

36- What are the criteria for accepting members to the ENA?

An organization should have had its organizational congress and must have an elected leadership. We have made some changes to the old mode of operation.

37- A group, which split from Sagem, applied for membership to the ENA, it was not announced that it was accepted or rejected, what was the decision?

We have postponed the decision on that.

38- National conference -- what has been reached and where are you heading with it?

As you surely are aware, we formed a committee headed by Ahmed Nasser representing the ENA. It will meet all Eritreans from all organizations, civil societies and personalities to talk and move the wheel to hasten the convening of the conference. We would like to make this an all-encompassing Eritrean event where everybody is represented properly. We do not intend to make this an ENA deal, though the ENA is very serious about the conference.

39- You have been around in the Eritrean political arena for quite sometime now. If you would carry out an analysis of the general Eritrean situation and forecast what the situation would be like say, a year from now, what do you see happening?

A year from today is very difficult, my friend Saleh. But on the other hand, let's say that, and we hope that the dictatorship will not be there a year from today. And we will fight so that he will not remain a day longer than necessary. That achieved, national unity among Eritreans based on our particularities and the rights that accompany our particularities. And the constitution that should emerge from the recognition of those particularities as enriching aspects of Eritrean democracy, then, I think, we will be in a position to establish peaceful relations with our neighbors- with all four, Ethiopia, Sudan Yemen and Djibouti.

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