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Documents/Interviews
An Interview conducted with Seyoum O. Michael by Saleh Younis Editor’s Note: His name is Seyoum O. Michael but everyone within ELF knew him as Seyoum Harestai (Seyoum the Farmer.) The “Harestai” monicker is due to the fact that he was the organizer of the Eritrean Peasant Association within the ELF and he was (and still is) passionate about all things agricultural: land, farming and the politics that links both. Seyoum is one of the pioneers of the Eritrean student movement that played a vital role in “urbanizing” the Eritrean Liberation Front which was, at the time, predominantly rural-based. Among his recruits is the current president of In subsequent parts of the interview [Ed: the interview was orignially serialized, but this copy is a consolidation], you will read about his arrest and the daring prison raid by the ELF to free him and his colleagues from the Adi Khuala prison, ELF-RC, the Alliance, their role in the Eritrea-Ethiopia War, why they won’t renounce violence, his views on the reform movement within PFDJ and the allegations that ELF-RC (and the Alliance) have committed treason. But in this part, we introduce you to Seyoum O. Michael….
Thank you Let’s begin at the beginning. Would you tell us how your participation in the struggle started and when you started to develop nationalist sentiments and the general situation in that period? According to my experience, sentiments of nationalism do not start in a specific time. It is a process. A process that began, let’s say, based on my experience, in the elementary school days. Because, it is a process. It was in the early days of the elementary school days, when I started to be aware of, and showed interest in, the issues. I remember in the early days, in the elementary school of the Setaweyan, Scoula San Bernardo as it was called. I was young, but I saw movements around me; movements of students who were ahead of us. A movement of specific demands, a movement [of students] addressing the situation of their education or problems they faced in the schools. But, quickly, it [the issue] developed to an opposition of the federal arrangement that There were movements. I remember, for example, at the high schools, the secondary schools, they were demonstrating. The demonstration expanded to our surroundings. Schools were closed and opened [because of the demonstrations]. Our school was an elementary school but the older students demanded that it be closed. We asked what the problems and the reasons were [for the closure.] This way, [we learned of] the situation our country was in, and to what degree the demands of the students addressed the situation our country was in. The Flag I can describe is as a ray. We saw rays as children. Later on, (by the way, I attended an Italian school up until ninth grade), later on when we moved to middle school, I went to Scoula Alessandro Volta, commonly known as I remember we were saying repeatedly to each other as we went in [to school], “Oramai, Le Eritrea Perduta.” To this day, I remember the feeling and I hear [echoes] of ‘Oremai, Le Eritrea Perdutta’. When was that, what year? It was around 1958, as I remember. After that we became more involved emotionally. I cannot say we were practically involved at the time because we were young; but, emotionally, [we felt] that a big incident had occurred; a big measure had been taken against our people and country. Therefore, one way or another, our people should oppose it and we had a sense of urgency. Then, when we entered secondary school, the work of political opposition involved us as much as our schooling and education. Our emotions spill over; and our knowledge of militancy was enhanced. This is about the time I left the Italian school and attended a public school where everybody else was going: WeldeDawit? WeldeDawit was in the school but we hadn’t met yet. But there was Zaccarias, I don’t remember his second name, and Azieb…I am not that good at remembering names, but this was the time when we started to organize peacefully and we were at the forefront of the student movement. By agitating for demonstrations and airing opposition, we highlighted the struggle of the student movement against occupation to an extent that we were being frequently detained--though the period of detention was short, two or three days at a time. We started to spiral the movement by carrying out our activities to other secondary schools. We met others who had a similar outlook as ours and we started to get organized. We first got organized in the form of committees and then we chose a coordinating committee to harmonize the activities among the schools. As students, the unique nature of our political appeal was, on the one hand, to use the school as a starting point to oppose the occupation and, on the other hand, to organize our movement to support the Armed struggle started by the ELF around that time. When Hamid Idris Awate began the armed struggle, the echoes of that shot had reached all corners of That was the tough part of our movement. Though we were getting limited materials, there were not enough written materials in the early days of the ELF. We started preparing or own. I remember, we were handwriting copies (we didn’t have duplicators). Every one of us spent nights handwriting about fifty copies - and that is done in hiding – and we were distributing the manually- duplicated materials. We were duplicating and spreading it. We drew the Eritrean Flag. I liked to draw the Eritrean flag very much; to this day, some of my friends remember me for my passion in drawing the flag. I wrote poems about national opposition. Another thing is the bulletin board in the school, which was designed for [school-related] announcement purposes. We used it to post our writings calling for national uprising and upholding the armed struggle. The school administration would take off what we posted and we would post another and so on again and again. We wrote graffiti and slogans on the walls with chalks; we wrote letters to individuals who were standing against the opposition in order to win them on our side. There were no resources then, everything was done manually and that is how we tried to influence…and within the student circle, we were able to create a very influential movement. The [student movement] also had an organizing role on the workers – there were many industries in The workers movement was strong and, at one point, especially around the time the Eritrean flag was lowered, had had bloody confrontations with We are still in the High School years. Then what? Later on, when we entered the eleventh and twelfth grade, other nationalist became involved in the student movement. Among the nationalists who started the struggle then were, for example, today’s Eritrean President, Isaias Afwerki; Martyr Welde-Dawit Temesgen; Hailemariam Weldetensae, who is now known as Dru’E; Mussie Tesfamichael, an interesting fighter who was later with the EPLF, Zeccarias, Berekhet, a….Berekhet Gebretensae, who, until recently, was in France… these are among those whom I remember. At least at the level of the School Committee. At the coordinating level, among the members of the committee who coordinated activities between different schools, I remember from Leul Mokennen school, Weldeyesus Ammar, who, along with me, was delegated to coordinate with other schools. From other schools there are names that I cannot remember, though as strugglers I clearly remember them. I remember, Tekhle Ezaz, Girmai Yosef, and… Michael Gaber…. there were many but those are the ones that I remember who are today active in one political organization or another, or in the present Eritrean Government or the opposition. From those who were a grade or two behind us in school and took over the movement after we left, I remember, for example, Abdella Hassen, Gerezghier Tewelde … When and how did you transition from student activist to ELF members? When our movement escalated, especially in 1965, we were able to organize a huge demonstration. It was a large demonstration that included all schools in Since we were the organizers of that demonstration, we were well known to the government. When the government started to pick the “instigators’ and leaders of the demonstrations, we became targeted for the crackdown. It was difficult to imprison thousands of students so they released all the students; then, they started to pick those they considered ringleaders. It was natural that those who were seen agitating or giving a speech etc, would be targeted and we thought that we were too vulnerable to continue in the movement. We couldn’t hide and when we tried to hide, we saw that the venues were exhausted. Thus, we decided to continue our activities at the level of the Liberation Army. And the advice of the ELF was also similar: they said that we could not continue in the student movement and that we should go out to join [the Liberation Army]. We discussed the decision with a limited number of our colleagues. There were also others who were being hunted down but they travelled and went in hiding in other places. The police had targeted us: they had distributed our pictures and concentrated their traps at checkpoints, particularly in the towns of the Western Lowland, since they assumed we would head towards that area. And so, we chose to head to the less likely area and carry it from there. In addition, we were of the opinion that going without leaving something behind, someone to carry the movement forward, is useless. Maybe in The Activities in Welde-Dawit and I left [Asmara] for Gonder, Ethiopia and headed to a Medical College in Gonder-- I don’t know if it is still there now. The school had a concentration of Eritreans. We were able to make contacts with the Eritreans there and formed cells. We contacted and organized some workers in whom we found very encouraging views and a sense of interest in their country. That facilitated our activities. When we left, we were penniless with the exception of the cost of the first leg of our trip. Those we organized would pay the next leg of the trip. That, by the way, is how we reached all the way to It is part of history. Our readers want to know… Please go ahead. We camped in at the universities. First, it was in Telecommunication, where we slept in the student dorms and organized them. Then we went to another faculty and stayed with the students at their dormitory and so on to other faculties. We then headed to Jimma and Dire Dawa and formed cells. In Dire Dawa, we formed a wide cell network because there was a large secondary school. Then on to Harar… in many towns where there were Eritreans, we formed cells of students and workers. A helpful situation was that when the Workers Union of Eritrea was hit, many workers left for neighbouring countries and many left for At long last, we had to leave We headed to Gonder. Our arrest was actually a blessing in disguise because, on our way back to Gonder, we had the chance to meet all the cells that we organized and see their developments. We met with our cells in Dire Dawa and The To cross from Gonder to the It took us ten days clearing the road, which was very dangerous. While we were in the middle of our journey, the fasting season of tSom ArbaA (lent) began and we, being young students, ignored it. We went to the forest, hunted an animal and ate it. In After a long search when we found the men. We explained our situation to their brother, and they sympathized with us. So the issue of crossing the border became a topic of discussion between all of us. The issue of money was solved because the man offered to pay for us, to pay for the trip. Now, do we continue with the same vehicle or what? When we asked about the crossing to We crossed over and came to a place called Basonda in the We left our guesthouse to see the whereabouts of the people who came with us on the trip. They were Ethiopian workers who come to Then we went to Gedaref. I remember Welde-Dawit was very sick on the journey and was suffering and coughing severely. When we reached Gedaref, it coincided with a big meeting that the ELF was conducting. Mohammed Ali Omaro [now Eritrean Ambassador to PART 2 (2 of 5) You have given us biographical detail until you joined the Armed Struggle. Could you tell us what positions you held after you joined the armed struggle? Within the armed wing of the organization, which I joined in 1965, my first assignment was in the Information and Propaganda Department. Later on, after some [military] training—in 1966-67; it was short-lived--I was part of the Eritrean Liberation Army, in the Western Region, when it was still divided into four divisions. I was in the meeting that delineated Linking The Student’s Movement With The Armed Struggle We [Welde-Dawit and I] devised a joint program: to reorganize and organize ELF’s underground political movement. Because we came from the student movement, we always felt responsible and always saw what needed to be done with the students. And we were interested to link the student movement with the political wing of the ELF. And we felt that the linkage between the student movement and the ELFcouldn’t be done by anyone else. Nobody could do it better than us because we had been part of the leadership of the movement. Our aim was to get them directly involved in the armed struggle; they were already involved in support of the movement but we wanted them to get directly linked. The program we prepared in Towards this end, we sent Welday Kahsay--maybe you know him--we sent him with letters to different people in Agordat. But he was not successful and his cover was blown and he returned back. We had planned for him to conduct the preparatory work for our arrival. He didn’t succeed because Welday was a new recruit and this was his first assignment. So we went to Agordat, disguised as priests and deacons, and from there, we boarded the train heading to I should mention here that when Weldai Kahsay’s trip was aborted, we had sent Berhan Blatta [now a signatory to the “Open Letter To PFDJ Members”] as his substitute to The whole trip was successful. In that trip we organized many of the prominent players of today, be it on the opposition or elsewhere, including President Isaias himself. As I mentioned before, those who were visible at our school, Leul Mokenen, or at other When was that, 1965? 1966. We divided the students in two groups. Those who were in the secondary school were organized in one cell--because they will remain in The mutual suspicion among Eritrean elements was eliminated. In addition, we organized workers, teachers, and women. By workers, I mean workers who were active in Haraka. We explained the goals of the armed struggle and recruited them to the ELF. The largest number of the workers were Haraka members who were convinced to join the ELF armed struggle and be part of its cells. So there are three parts to it: first, the student movement was organized to ELF cells; second, reorganization the already veteran ELF member; and, thirdly, organizing the Haraka members. It was organization and reorganization; and recruitment when we found some who were not involved. That way when we were about to finish our work…. in fact we introduced a new mode of operation: instead of planning on [Field-based] ELF guerrillas or fedaeyeen infiltrating the city to carry out an operation (which was high-risk, and required complicated resources and logistics) we decided to organize an urban guerrilla. Some of the elements from the membership of the ELF were formed in such groups by giving them limited training on selected arms. And when they received directives, they were to carry out an operation against the enemy. This was also done. This was a big operation and to this date I am very proud of that work. It helped many to join the armed struggles and helped the ELF urban cells to get involved directly in the armed struggle. But then came betrayal. Betrayal & Luck:The Mulu Ghiorghis and Isaias Afwerki Incident A certain Mulu Ghiorghis, a member of the Revolutionary Committee and an ELF cadre, surrendered in Tessenei. They brought him to You were careless? Not carelessness. We had to finish what we came for. It was kind of a challenge-- though it was a misplaced challenge. Now, in hindsight, we should have left…. but then as I said before, we were not worried of what might befall us but on what we should accomplish, that was our goal and that hurt us. When you see it from the ELF point of view, the ambitions and programs and the important projects that were awaiting us…. Many things were destroyed because we were detained. By the way, at the moment we were detained,[President] Isaias could have been detained: right about the time we were being escorted out of the house, Isaias came to the compound, riding a bicycle. But the Tor Serawit, didn’t suspect that he might have any involvement with us. He entered the house? He and Gerezghier Weldu were riding on a bicycle and they almost came face to face with us as they were entering the house from which we were taken by the Tor Serawit. Other than telling them to stay away, they didn’t ask them who they were. That was good luck. I am glad he [Isaias] was not detained with us because he played a good role. He followed us and spread the news of our detention because, then, the people knew where we were. They played a positive role and offered some kind of protection. Otherwise, if you are jailed by the Tor Serawit, you are taken not to a police station but the Tor Serawit camp, Villagio Junio. Once there, they interrogate you, take the information they need and tell you, “Dig!” and you dig a hole, big enough to be a grave, where they kill you and bury you. This is how so many precious lives were lost. But in our case, the news spread fast so they interrogated us and demanded that we renounce our cause and aim. When we resisted that, they had no choice but to take us to court. There was a third person that was jailed with us, Memher Seyoum, who, if my memory serves me right, was the Headmaster of Hebret School. We pleaded with him and tried to convince him to put all the blame us so that he can get out. Memher Seyoum…He was later ran over by a car: they killed him… The Ethiopians killed him? Yes. Meanwhile, our main task became how to get him [Memher Seyoum] out of prison. We asked him to tell the Ethiopians that we tried to recruit him and that he rejected us and that we all stick to this story. But there is that Eritrean “thing”: he was a truly patriotic Eritrean, and despirte our efforts, he told us that everyone should get his share [of the suffering]. He said that his conscience would not permit him to blame everything on us and be freed and that he would rather share imprisonment or death with us. We pleaded with him saying that we were caught red-handed and him blaming it on us will not add anything more to what we were already accused of. But it was futile. Moreover, talking with him was not easy because we were put in different cells and we were communicating through one of our guards, an Eritrean, whom we recruited later on to an ELF cell. He was passing messages from us Memher Seyoum. We persisted and kept pressuring and, finally, he [Memher Seyoum] accepted [the plan]. He was released after he told them that we tried to recruit him and that he had declined our offer. They released him and told him that he would have to come to court to testify as a witness. He accepted and it was done. Demand To Renounce The Cause The guard who had helped us got carried away and started to smuggle food and other things. He was soon found and jailed. Apart from the camp labor, the prison situation was not bad. Then they asked us to renounce our cause. They gave us a statement to sign and the statement said that our goal were wrong and that we recant it. We told them that they are the ones who have to recant what they were doing. We told them: “you occupied “A Very Important Person in Eritrean History” Who was he? He was a tailor in Ghirmai was not a collaborator. It was the case [commonly agreed] that when someone is jailed he denies that he knows anything and stalls for about three days--by then all the suspects would flee, hide or move to other places. After the expiration of the three-day grace period, it was acceptable to provide token information to save your life. That is what Ghirmai did. Incidentally, we didn’t use the three days of grace period and that was why we were caught. Trial: A Bench and A Platform So we were presented to court, and the trial started. In court, well, it is a long story, but we were sentenced to a ten year jail term. The prosecutor was asking for the death penalty, but the judge gave us a sentence of ten years. Since the case an open and shut case, our defense was to claim that an Ethiopian court has no jurisdiction and no right to try us, the trial became very controversial. We were using the trial for mobilization purposes and the deliberations were being leaked to the outside by soldiers and the rest. We used the court as a platform for mobilization. After we were sentenced, the prosecutor appealed the ruling…but that was not your question. Your question was about the positions I held…. What positions did you hold after you became the political commissioner of the Third Division? Yes, yes, that was the answer. After I was the political commissioner, I was assigned to jail….[laughter] The prosecutor was Amanuel Andemichael [an Eritrean] who was the Attorney General and there was someone else with him, I can’t remember his name but sounds like Kelkel. The prosecutors were appealing out ten-year-sentence and get us the death penalty. Who was you attorney? Tseggai. Tseggai Melles. Tseggai went through a lot of problems with us. He was trying to argue with us to try a different defense. Anyway, they appealed. The Judge, Tekola, was sympathetic to us. During the deliberations, he became quite sympathetic towards us. Was he Eritrean? He is an Amhara, I mean Ethiopian. He was not happy with what the prosecutors were doing trying to push for the death penalty. We felt that he didn’t want to go beyond ten years [jail term] He said that we should be given a chance. But after the prosecutors appeal, it was clear that we were going to the death penalty. Then the ELF took a pre-emptive action. You Will Die Before They Do The action was an announcement by the ELF to the prosecutors, telling them that if we were sentenced to die, they assured them: “you will die before they do.” All of a sudden they withdrew their appeal. In fact, the proceedings stopped and we were sentenced to ten years. Of course, we knew why but we could not tell [our attorney] tSeggai Melles. He asked us, surprised, why they would withdraw their appeal after so enthusiastically pushing for the death penalty. He told us that we were lucky; we told him “ten years is not lucky.” The Raid of Adi Kuala and Sembel In 1975, after so many failed attempts to break out of the prison, it finally happened. The famous operations at Adi Kuala and Sembel [the ELF raid of the prisons and freeing the prisoners.] What people don’t know is that there had been fourteen failed attempts before the success. There were some that were planned to be executed jointly with the ELF military wings and that failed for different reasons; others that were uncovered before they were even attempted; others that we the prisoners planned. The fifteenth attempt was successful. The Adi Khuala operation was planned by me inside the prison. I planned everything from within the prison walls and the role of the ELA was to execute… Who Did You Co-ordinate With, Outside The Walls of Prison? On the other side, beyond the walls, was Martyr Saeed Saleh. That is a daring operation that should be covered in detail on another occasion… Anyway, after we were freed from the prison, I was assigned to the political office [of the ELF] in a provisional status and shortly after that, the congress [second national congress of the ELF 1975] was held and I participated in it. After that, I was assigned as the Political Commissioner of Administrative region No 10 (AkeleGuzai) and I was also the General Administrator of the region. This continued until 1977. And in 1977 for a short period of time I worked in the ELF/EPLF dialogue committee, before the dialogue was aborted. Then I was assigned Administrator of the Political School of Cadres. And for a short period, I was a member of the Administration of the political office and Administrator of Political School of Cadres and then in the Preparatory Committee for the formation of the Eritrean Peasants’ I served for one year in that capacity. It was from 1977 to 1978. In 1978 we held the founding congress of the general Union of Eritrean Peasants in Medefera wher peasants from all over Eritrea were represented; there has never been a congress of its kind before it or after it. Not a single ‘wereda’ or ‘Adi’ was left from the representation in the general union of Eritrean Peasants. Even the people who were around the EPLF camps, in What were your main tasks? At the time, I was leading [administering] land reformation and distribution, formation of joint activities, cooperatives in all corners of Eritrea until the new developments in the Eritrean field was created [the Weyane/EPLF attack and the subsequent military defeat of the ELF]. By the way, I consider myself, legally, the President of the Eritrean Peasants Union simply because there was no congress that ended my mandate (zewredeni guba’e sle zeyelo) . I still feel responsible for all Eritrean Peasants in regards to their needs and aspirations. And I am genuinely and actively concerned about Land Issue. There after, every body was assigned to the defense of the ELF –though this cannot be considered an assignment- because all the organization and the supporters of the organization (ELF) were involved. In the last capacity, [as chairman of the Eritrean Peasants Union], I visited many countries. In preparing the congress, and then to establish relations for the Eritrean Peasants’ Union with the cooperative movements of the world, with World Peasant Movements, with different mass organizations and workers unions, I traveled to Europe, the Middle East and participated in many international conferences. Later, when we were all involved in the defense of the ELF, in the 1984 organizational conference of the ELF, I was elected member of the revolutionary council of the organization (ELF-RC). And later, in 1991, I was elected member of the Executive Committee [of the ELF-RC]. In 1993, I became member of the Executive Committee, as Head of the International relations office and I continued in that capacity after the fourth congress. Part 3 (3 of 5) You said that one of the issues that you are interested in with passion is land law. Now, what difference of opinion do you have with the existing land laws and policies? The difference is not only a “difference of opinion” but it can be seen from the prospective of difference in organizational constitution [ELF-RC vs PFDJ]. The existing PFDJ policy is a policy of plunder and that is how we see it. Basically, the use of a veneer that says, “land is the property of the government”, is a ploy to own and to distribute land selectively and on whim; to enforce your power interest until you solidify your financial capability. To seize land as you wish; to offer land in the marketplace in exchange for hard currency, is to undermine the basic asset of our people that they used for ages. In short, it is undermining and pulling the carpet from under their legs. Because of that, we consider the policy that the government is following, as a policy of plunder; it is a policy of looting. It is unpopular, illegal and undemocratic. The land policy that we stood for earlier and defend today is a policy originating from the people and one that can only be identified by the interest of the people. Though in different zones of In our country, when we say a citizen, it is not something hanging between the sky and the ground. A citizen is something in relation to its land, its place dwelling space and its interests related to land. When we say a citizen we mean land and the rights associated with it. We don’t see a citizen divorced from land and divorced from the rights associated with it. That is not something that can work. What is being tried now is just that. Land [is] the root of every citizen and his basis; for today and for the future. Land is the continuity of generations and it is so for every citizen. To undermine this system and declare land as the property of the government, and to dispose off land on the basis of whims and relations can’t be anything but plunder and it is being witnessed in reality. As we witness today, land is being taken from poor peasants and villages that should use it and on which their basic existence depends (when we say ‘Adi’ it means the people and the land) and being sold to various hard-currency- paying foreigners and hard currency owning Eritreans. This has caused our people to be go from poor to poorer. It is uprooting the citizen and it is undermining citizenship. Fundamentally, the people own land. When we say land of the people, it is also the land of the country. However, it is not possible to look into land issues outside the ownership and interest of the people. Yes, we are a country and we are a government, if it is a popular government. It is possible to have some limited land that is of strategic value, one so determined by law, which can be utilized for the benefit of the whole country and people. However, this, the use of land, cannot be done without the consent, outside the interests and will of the villages and regions. Even a government can not [use land] by undermining the interests of the people and their foundations. Even the limited use of land for infrastructure development becomes plunder, unless it is done in accordance with the need and consent of the regions and in which they can share the benefits. Therefore, we oppose strongly the actions that are taken by the government and its agents on the land of the people, their identity and foundation. To begin with, the ELF-RC, has very clear basis and goals and specific initiatives and calls that we have repeatedly announced to the people on this issue. The initiative is based on a principle that includes our people. Moreover, our land policy cannot be seen from an organization’s standpoint only; it is a popular call because the Eritrean people have participated in its formation and construction, be it at the level of the Eritrean Peasants Movement or the Eritrean General Peasants Union or in the level of the ELF-RC. Beyond that, this policy was the call of all political movements of our people, even before the creation of the ELF or other national movements. Our principled stand cannot be dismissed just by labelling it an organizational policy: it is a popular policy, a revolutionary policy and national policy. Even if the [PFDJ] government overruns the policy, it will remain a popular and solid policy and we shall stand by it. In general, this is our land policy. Now, if you ask the representatives of the Government of Eritrea, they say, “land belongs to the people, and we represent the people, we administer and develop it on the behalf of the people”. You are saying that the land issue should be decided locally “by people closest to the land.” They are saying, “we want a uniform land policy that can be administered centrally for the development of the country.” The land policy is not something that should be seen only from top going to the bottom but should be seen from bottom up. First, basically what is referred to as the citizen, the citizen (“wedi Adi”, “zega”) is not something you see in alienation to the land. We say a citizen, in Two questions, 1) you said that a citizen is seen from the angle of land. By this definition, doesn’t it mean that one who doesn’t own a land is not a citizen? 2) In ancient times, a citizen would be born, grow up, get married and die in the same plot of land. But now, with the freedom of movement that is guaranteed by the constitution (all constitutions) what happens when one moves from place to place in the same country? What we said is that we cannot differentiate a citizen from land and land from a citizen and that is the Eritrean reality. We believe that every Eritrean is entitled to a land….in principle. Every Eritrean is entitled to land for living (Tsha), in principle and by law. But when we come to implementing, in practice, it becomes an administrative issue. For example, ‘if someone, a person who doesn’t live in an agricultural community is given an agricultural area, will he be able to use it or not?’ could be open to questioning, but this is answered administratively. One who lives in “Adi”, depends solely on land --to what extent should his right to use and own land be protected; is land his main source income or he has another source—is an administrative issue. When we formulated our policies, we believed that every Eritrean is entitled to land for Tsha. To have a land in their country as their roots and also to have a place to live in is agreed upon in principle but when it comes to putting it in practice, because there are questions of administrative nature so it remains an administrative question. Even when we carried out the land distribution and reformation in 1978-79, we put the above into consideration. When I say ‘we’, there is no land policy that we brought from the top and imposed on the people. Each community (Adi) participated in the decision and was involved in its [the policy’s] execution with full consent and participation. And that is why it was successful. Had it been an imposed [policy], it wouldn’t have been successful. It is a matter of principle and it is a matter of rights. It is a matter of entitlement as far as the citizen is concerned; but implementing that principle, its utilization, becomes an administrative issue. Now, we cannot go into details: it is something that can be seen in light of distribution and use. That is why we cannot see a citizen separated from its rights and entitlements. When we define a citizen, it is not someone who is uprooted, someone who does not have a root in the Eritrean land or someone without an entitlement to land. A final question on your passion: land policies. The difficulty is not in agreeing about principles but its utilization. For example there are regions like the Kebbessa ( First, I have to confirm one truth because we have to base our conversation on that: In Eritrea, there is not a compact entity [land] that is not owned by the people; there is no piece of land that is not territorially delineated and that can not be identified by a people, regardless of the number of the people. There is no land that is outside the control or ownership of a segment of the people. There is no commune or county that cannot be identified with the people. The people own the land; they are identified by the land; they are identified with the land; and their livelihood life is based on that land. They can use the land for grazing, settlement, farming and whatever: it is their identity, their roots and their base. Therefore, whether in one place there are more people and less land, or less people and more land, regardless, it is delineated and all of us Eritreans have to accept this fact. Once we accept this fact, the administrative… When you say Demarcated, do you mean as Hamassien, Seraye etc (provincial), or Adi Kusto Adi Kusto (at the commune level?) First, it has to be seen from the “Adi” level. For example, even land that is identified by a clan is also delineated. Even a tribe’s identifiable land is known. Its use is a different issue. Maybe it is not used for farming and its owner might not have trespassing objections, especially the land that the Italians allotted as Domaniale, (State Land) and later was distributed to [Italian] nationals for exploitation, regardless of that we cannot identify the land as such simply because that was how [The Italians] allotted it. If we go down to our people, they know the boundaries of the people and the boundaries of the land. And we, the ELF-RC, know and can identify [the boundaries] properly. When we come to the utilization [of land], then it becomes an administrative issue. When we come to the introduction of land reforms—how does the Eritrean citizen use land in different corners of Eritrea?-- there are reforms to be introduced. If there is something new we want to introduce, the source has to be the people. We don’t believe that the prevalent culture among our people in regards to the organization of land, from ownership to utilization, is without flaws. There could be flaws specially when development takes place, concentration of people from one place to another can be observed and mistakes can be observed. But this is not a policy that we impose but something that the people should participate in by having a role in making decisions in its regard. [It is something] that [the people] should willingly accept as a fact and move on; and then, such reforms could be introduced. But, we don’t mean that the utilization of land and its boundaries is a rigid and unchangeable reality. As we go on there could be [policies] that should be introduced in relations to the use and administration [of land] and that could be needed objectively. But here, nothing, concerning the land should be imposed from the top; we do not support or accept this approach; we oppose it. Reforms on land ownership and utilization can only be introduced after the people, at the grassroots level consciously observe realities and after they are debated by the people on a national level on national conferences and after carrying our national studies where the people are directly involved. In this regard, our people are quite conscious. No reform policy should be imposed [on our people], under the pretext of modernization, outside the will and the participation of the people , or under the pretext of equalization. Moreover, an agricultural area should not remain an agricultural area indefinitely. There is a possibility that an agricultural area might develop to become an industrial area. If you cannot use your land for agricultural area and you were entering the stage of industrialization, yield of land is not limited to grain only; you can use it for many things. Development is not limited to dividing of land only, because it will also involve the transition from one mode of production to another mode of production, we say there should be an overall view of the developments that might ensue. All this will be witnessed in development. There is no such thing as: “once an agricultural [land] always an agricultural [land]”. In our world today, we see places that were purely agricultural lands that have become centres of industrial development. We cannot see the developments now, but with any forthcoming development, there are reforms regarding the use of land that could be introduced, in one zone or another. Land reform should be [an exercise] that involves the people directly, not a law that snatches land from the people; thus it should not be a law of plunder under the pretext of government or another. Part 4 (4 of 5) Let me ask you about the ELF-RC’s relationship with other organizations in The Alliance of Eritrean Opposition Forces. Is the ELF-RC a junior partner or a senior partner? Our relationship, which was agreed to by all, is identified by minimum agreements of common ground and is governed by a National Charter. At the political level, the minimum agreement focuses on the immediate tasks of our people. And that is: getting rid of the dictatorship in When we come to relations, this [ELF RC] is the leading democratic opposition and naturally it is expected to play a high role in the strengthening of the National Alliance of Eritrea. However, in our relations with all Eritrean organization, we meet on equal basis. Just because we are the leading organization doesn’t mean we impose ourselves on the member organizations of the We are interested in (1) fostering confidence among the members of the organization; ( 2) how to push towards achieving the goals regardless of the size [of the organization] and ( 3) when it reaches the stages of maturity, based on the realities of its formation, to maybe look into the minimum points of agreement and upgrading the national charter. We might look into it once we build confidence among the organization and we would have a chance to do that but right now it is not something one can talk about. It is too early to say that. Since you mentioned the Independence Bloc of the 1940s-- it is claimed that the Independence Bloc was not formed to protect Eritrean interests but was formed by foreign powers to advance foreign interests. And now, since the formation of the Alliance Forces was in 1999, when the war between Such talks have been there. And who is behind these talks? It is the dictatorial system of Even before the start of the conflict between The efforts, dialogues and communications to form the It was a task of unity; a task where we unite our word, where we unite our muscle, and hit the dictatorial system on the political and other aspects and removes the system from the backs of our people. That was the task that we carried out. The stage clearly demanded the formation of an Eritrean Alliance. If an opposition is to have an impact at the national level and be heard internationally, it will result in victory in a short period of time. It was an objective necessity. Therefore, the formation of the The Alliance of Eritrean opposition Forces is repairing, maintaining and salvaging the damage inflicted by the oppressive regime in our people’s relations with their neighbors. We are rebuilding the damaged relations with In the last three years of war, you, as an opposition, had to tell the people about the mistakes that you believe the Eritrean government was committing. But, at the same time, why didn’t you speak out about the mistakes of the Ethiopian government and condemn it with the same vigor? Was there an interest, tactically or strategically, for not doing so? It’s true, that in the last three years of the war between But our stand was there and was explained openly in our communiqués and when we were discussing with the Ethiopians we pressured from the start till the end of the war. We can confidently say that, with our limited influence and pressure, we managed to decrease the actions and decreased the fear and terror and we played an important role in saving a big number of Eritreans from deportation. Those living far away from the hub of the activities might think otherwise but Eritreans living in It is inevitable that there are always elements that understand things only after reality sets, that understand things only the hard way. This process has exposed many truths. Today, it is known that the stand that the Eritrean Liberation Front, Revolutionary Council has taken on different basic issues that concern our country and people has been a courageous stand--not as seen from afar, but from inside We will withstand, with self-confidence, whatever campaign of defamation is directed against us. We have discharged our responsibility and move |